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Post by Zotmaster on Jul 11, 2013 19:12:18 GMT -5
Hey Six...and Nation. I obviously am not the most active person (and for better or worse, probably never will be) but I've heard about the crap that's happening and felt compelled to come here to post. Please, hear me out.
Six, do right by your community and pay for hosting. You made a mistake with Forumotion, and you will repeat it with ProBoards. I do not intend to sound presumptuous, arrogant or condescending, but that is the simplest, shortest pair of sentences I can type that gets the point across. Again, I ask that you at least hear me out: I'm sure we all agree that I wouldn't come here just for the hell of it, even if I don't have anywhere near as much of a stake in it as everyone else here.
First off, you are a slave to arbitrary policies regarding things like content. I am operating under the understanding (can't think of a better, less redundant combination of words than that phrase, sorry) that the Nation ran into some trouble regarding content, but you weren't really told exactly what was wrong. This is both prone to abuse and patently unfair. Moreover, why should you be? Simply by paying for your own web hosting and adding forum software to it (more on that later), you never will have to worry about this ever again. Take my site, for instance. Do I want to let loose with a stream of expletives? I just do it; nobody stops me. If I want to put titties up on my page, I can. If I want to regale you with tales of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll, that's entirely up to me. Nobody can tell me what to do provided I'm not breaking any laws, and I rather prefer it that way.
Second, and even more importantly, web hosting is almost certainly cheaper than what you're currently doing. No, seriously. You are legitimately getting ripped off. I have the PB FAQ open right now as I type this. Want a domain name? 14 bucks a year. Want to change the URL? That's ten bucks. Hilariously, if you want to get rid of ads for up to 50k pageviews, it's 6 dollars a month. That charge alone is already more than you would be paying for hosting, and when you pay for hosting you can add literally millions of things to your site, including additional forum software. Do you see why this is a bad deal? For less money than the "privilege" of not having someone else's ads, you could run your own ads on your own site, generating money for your own site, if that's what you wanted to do.
I am going to - quite shamelessly - plug my hosting provider, HostMonster.com. I pay 7 bucks a month for it, although if you sign up now they knock it down to 5. You'll pay at least yearly, so that would be 60 bucks. Let me go over some features of HostMonster hosting:
- Bandwidth? As much as you want.
- Storage? As much as you want.
- Email accounts associated with the domain? As many as you want, and there are multiple email clients built in.
- You want to host additional domains or subdomains? Sure. As many of those as you want, too.
- Google Ads promotions? Facebook credits? Sure, why not?
- Tech Support? Absolutely awesome. The very few times I've had to call them, they've been terrific. And it's never outsourced.
- Site builders? Other software? FTP accounts? Yes, yes, and yes. Unlimited FTP accounts, too, so adding crap to your domain even from your own computer is really easy.
Six, didn't this community (and OGOB) spring up because we all remembered how great MyResistance 1.0 was? You could just download the same software MyResistance used (Simple Machines), which is 100% free and entirely open source, which means your nerdier members could come up with additional features and skins for it if that's what you wanted to do. And I bet it's pretty simple to set up. And if for some reason you've strayed away from SMF, I'm sure there are others you could use.
You could do all of this, and so much more, for less than you're probably going to pay for ProBoards. Domain hosting is cheap enough that my domain never expired even for the months I was unemployed, and I'm about as broke as broke gets. It's easy, too: I'm bored enough that I could probably set it up right now, by myself. I totally respect the fact that you want to do things on your own terms, but I wanted to show you how you could do it much better. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask. You have great people around you: they deserve the best.
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Post by SixHousePull on Jul 11, 2013 20:25:57 GMT -5
I would love to Zot. Believe me when I say that. But it hasn't been my money alone that has paid away many of those things over the years.
I wish I didn't have to say it out in open public forum, but here we are...I don't have 60 dollars. I don't have 7. IN fact, until tomorrow I am in the negatives in my checking account. Its not a case of doing right or wrong by MY community. It isn't MY community. Its everyone's.
There are ways around the current situation.
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Post by Zotmaster on Jul 11, 2013 20:32:12 GMT -5
The first point I totally understand. I am obviously operating under incomplete information: I just wanted to point out that hosting is not nearly as expensive as you might think and that if you're going to pay for anything, it makes much more sense to buy hosting and have complete control than wasting your money on so-called "premium" features like the ones being offered by "free" providers.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on your second point, though. Actually, JB is going through a similar crisis at the moment. Like it or not, selfless or not, regardless of whether you say the community belongs to everyone...it is still your community. You are still the guy, the face, and the heartbeat. The community will go as far as you lead it, and no further. Other people may contribute ideas, feedback and other things, but the buck still stops with you.
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Post by SixHousePull on Jul 11, 2013 21:21:11 GMT -5
The first point I totally understand. I am obviously operating under incomplete information: I just wanted to point out that hosting is not nearly as expensive as you might think and that if you're going to pay for anything, it makes much more sense to buy hosting and have complete control than wasting your money on so-called "premium" features like the ones being offered by "free" providers. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on your second point, though. Actually, JB is going through a similar crisis at the moment. Like it or not, selfless or not, regardless of whether you say the community belongs to everyone...it is still your community. You are still the guy, the face, and the heartbeat. The community will go as far as you lead it, and no further. Other people may contribute ideas, feedback and other things, but the buck still stops with you. Well I certainly cant argue the facts and numbers. It makes sense, Zot, it does. But it still requires funds I dont always have. And if I am going to pay to host, I really want to pay for solid forum software. Its just not in the budget. The buck is very literal, and whether it stops on a lapse in domains here or anywhere......it just may. We did more than well on a "free" host. Way more. I dont see a mistake or failure in anything. Im trying not to be offended by being told I am not doing right by my community in dollar signs. Its not about that. I cant and wont speak for OGOB, but I can say The Sixth Nation was not created because of anything "fondly" remembered of MyRes. It was found on the idea that we don't need anyone other than ourselves to have a community. And as long as you have each other in that community.....it doesnt matter where it goes. It doesn't matter what it has or doesnt have. The only thing that matters are the very people in it. Thats is what has kept us going this long. No. I dont want PB or anyone telling us what we can and cant do. At the same time...Im not sure why the request to hold a PG13 board is so outrageous when it falls right into the demo. I want 13 year olds here. And 14. And 20. And 50. I want Sony gamers. And PC gamers. And straight up forum whores. Everyone. A community. That means working like a community to sort it out. If it will only go as far as I will lead it....than it really isnt a community. Is it? We can host our mature section at an intentionally un named place where it originated for the time being. The suggestion is good Zot, and I do appreciate it. I do. It makes sense. And tbh, it isnt me "trying to do it my terms". All Ive wanted to do was provide a place for people to come and talk about something they love to do. If I had money I didnt need...yeah...we could be further and have more. I'd still rather put my focus on the people and not be told that having one another isnt already the best. It is. |
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Post by RRwatch on Jul 12, 2013 15:43:40 GMT -5
Well, if you ever think about going the paid route Six let me know. I'll help out.
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Post by SixHousePull on Jul 12, 2013 18:18:03 GMT -5
Its always been in my plan. I have always wanted to get V Bulletin or some other REAL forum software, and yes, pay to park it somewhere. It's still in my plan. As of now I cant do it. I just dont see asking people to put more effort into another move (simple machines) after we have just made one, when ultimately, its still at the risk of funds and losing the host. Or the domain. Once I know I can do it all up....I just dont see the point going all out. You have helped so much over the past couple of years rr. And I cant thank you enough. And whats the rush anyhow? Is the gaming industry closing tomorrow?  Lets see where I am financially down the road. But Im not seeing any reason to stop our transition here myself. |
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Post by RRwatch on Jul 12, 2013 18:49:16 GMT -5
I'm in no hurry Six. But when I moderated a watch board us admin had to pay all the bills. Not fair. IF you ever decide to make that move let me know I am lucky enough to be able to help out. I enjoy this community too !
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Post by SixHousePull on Jul 12, 2013 20:55:22 GMT -5
I'm in no hurry Six. But when I moderated a watch board us admin had to pay all the bills. Not fair. IF you ever decide to make that move let me know I am lucky enough to be able to help out. I enjoy this community too ! I know you do. It means an awful lot to me too. I dont mean to come off as aggravated or anything through this thread. I understand the line of thinking Zot has here and If Im coming of as jack ass I am sorry. But I just dont see some of the connections. I don't want to have what ever has gone on at OGOB happen here. At least if I miss a domain payment the host is free and all we have lost is a pretty internet name. Our community can still come and talk to one another and not come log in only to find the site is down. I don't see how that is failing them? I think its the opposite tbh. I thank you again, but its not your responsibility any more than it is anyone elses. Its not why we come here is it? Its not because we have a cool spoiler button. Or because we have the ability to cuss at will. We come here because we enjoy one another. I and many others have put waaaaaay more into the this forum than any dollar amount can compare. Thats what I think holds the real value. I know it puts us in a position where we have to bend here and there to appease some host. But I would rather everyone have a here to come to and it doesnt hinge on money. Thats why I made the place. We dont need boards owned by consoles. We dont need Devs boards. We dont need anything but ourselves. We went into FM with NOTHING, and what we have left there is so much more. We left it to find more. And I think we have. We just got in here. We have to flush out the bugs. We have to settle. But we are still going forward. We move in. We regain and gain some users. We build. And when the time comes our next move will be our last. Rome wasnt built in a day. Obviously people enjoy themselves here, and thats all I want to provide. Obviously people see the potential here and I know how great it is. Its easy to get trigger happy when the pressure is on. I just dont think its the smartest move right now. Ive learned a lot in 4 years. It took some hard and repeated lessons, but cooler heads prevail. We got this. Im not worried. |
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Post by RRwatch on Jul 12, 2013 22:20:19 GMT -5
Heck yah !
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Post by jadedoblivion on Jul 13, 2013 22:35:19 GMT -5
im with rr on this, if you guys really want to go for a paid sight i will help out as much as i can.
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Post by SixHousePull on Jul 14, 2013 9:30:22 GMT -5
Well thanks Jaded. I mean....its really up to everyone. Does everyone really want to move again? We havent even settled or fully figured out what we can do here. Even though 80% of them were inactive we just left 700 users behind and a ton of threads and posts. Is everyone really willing to do that again? I am asking all serious here. Anyone and everyone reading. Im not sure if we ever did it, but ages ago we discussed having a Sixth Nation paypal set up so people could contribute. I myself was against the idea because I would rather see the contributions go into threads, and posts, and events, and user drives, etc. Not only that, but I just didnt think anyone would be comfortable handing money over to someone for something like that. I know I am a trustworthy guy. But not every user out there does.
I personally am hesitant to go smf because its so damn limited in what it can do. On sites like this we can at least code out html, Css, etc and unless something has changed smf doesnt really allow for that much? Im just uninformed so I cant say "Lets do this." We need to be able to make pages for things like Know Your Nation, MVP, etc.
I would be willing to allow users to keep us on a host site, but not foot the bill on 2-300 dollar forum software. I would need to know what our options in forums really are.
Lets keep the convo going, but I dont want to see a lull because people are afraid to post because another move may be right around the corner.
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Post by wadey on Jul 15, 2013 9:11:09 GMT -5
I don't see any need go paying for a new forum ATM
Let the dust settle first feel the place out!
Get our user base back up.
Lets not get into (the grass is greener over there syndrome) coz youl never be happy.
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Liamcifer
Administrator 
I know where you live.
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Post by Liamcifer on Jul 15, 2013 9:55:39 GMT -5
...Six is a Landscaper by trade the fact that the grass is greener on the other side means that he did a good job.
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Post by Cel on Jul 15, 2013 11:36:26 GMT -5
wadey - Check your PM's bud. I'm an idiot. 8D I will fix this in a few hours when it allows.  RRwatch and jadedoblivion - I think you two are wonderful for offering to help fund whatever we need for this community. That is what a community.. A successful community needs / means. I for one, don't get it. The fact that because we have to do away with one board.. Simply because this is technically an 13+ forum ( which WE ALL AGREED to the terms when we registered) and ProBoards doesn't allow it that means we have to pack up again and move some where else.. To a "high tech" forum that most of us CAN'T afford ( Obviously I share my financial situation with Six ). Is it cool that us "Big kids" can have a spot reserved for only us, that we can talk about "Big People" stuff? Yes. But having that little treat OR not having it isn't going to make or break the Sixth Nation. .. Now is it? I didn't sign up all these years ago because of an 18+ section that 1.0 provided. I came because of all the people I absolutely love was here and I wanted to support a long time friend. With that came new friends. New adventures. Tears. Heartbreaks. A place to share our passion of video gaming and communicating with wonderful people across the globe. And I have for 4 plus years now. While some really good and valid statements were made in the OP of this thread.. Some rude ones was made as well and probably ( to me ) overshadows any point that was trying to be made. Six has not nor is he " failing " his community. Sixth Nation is not a failure. We have been steadily active and a great home to many users for 4 YEARS! To say otherwise is taking away from not only him, but to all the Admins and Mods who have put so much work into this place. And to every last active user who posts daily all because we love our home and friendships that have been made through out the years. Look around. The loyalty and friendships and the build of a wonderful community is anything but a failure. With OR without a silly little 18+ section.
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Post by mossyoak01 on Jul 15, 2013 12:50:00 GMT -5
The grass may be greener on the other side....but you still have to mow it. Any way that's what I've always heard. Hilllbilly logic at its finest lol.
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Post by RRwatch on Jul 15, 2013 13:23:50 GMT -5
I do get scared trying to adhere to unclear policies, from Proboards. I trust the Mods and Admin we have to keep an eye on things. I dont trust Proboards to look at anything objectively now. Its just the way I feel, sort of looking over my shoulder type thing.
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Post by Cel on Jul 15, 2013 14:09:06 GMT -5
* Edited .. Because.. Well I can I guess. |
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Post by Six on Jul 15, 2013 15:42:06 GMT -5
I do get scared trying to adhere to unclear policies, from Proboards. I trust the Mods and Admin we have to keep an eye on things. I dont trust Proboards to look at anything objectively now. Its just the way I feel, sort of looking over my shoulder type thing. This is my biggest issue now. I couldn't care less about the 18+ section. It's the fact that when we ask them to clarify a rule their reply is "just do as you're told". For all we know, someone typing the word "sex" could have brought them running and telling us no "adult material"/"mature content". We could all probably guess why they wanted it down, but they left it that ambiguous. We can't a have a place for "mature discussions" at a 13+ board, but talking about games where you can blow people up and have their insides raining from the sky or hinting at said bad topics is okay because apparently that's appropriate for 13 year olds. :/ |
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Post by SixHousePull on Jul 15, 2013 17:26:35 GMT -5
I don't see any need go paying for a new forum ATM Let the dust settle first feel the place out! Get our user base back up. Lets not get into (the grass is greener over there syndrome) coz youl never be happy. This was exactly my point. When dealing with groups of people, there will always be something someone isnt happy with. The perfect foum is a Moby Dick. ( Do with that what you will Liam ). Even if we were to host a site and all our rules etc, there would still be SOME issue by somebody. One of the biggest things Ive learned in all my time doing this is: “You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.” Abraham Lincoln
Right now the topic is uneasiness of Pro Boards and how they have acted. But its still true. If we move, we will just have some other discussion going on right now. ...Six is a Landscaper by trade the fact that the grass is greener on the other side means that he did a good job. Of coarse I did. I always do a good job. Except for that ass hat on Brookhaven Drive. I just dont like him. The grass may be greener on the other side....but you still have to mow it. Any way that's what I've always heard. Hilllbilly logic at its finest lol. At approximately 2 and a half to 3 inches if mowing Kentucky Bluegrass. I do get scared trying to adhere to unclear policies, from Proboards. I trust the Mods and Admin we have to keep an eye on things. I dont trust Proboards to look at anything objectively now. Its just the way I feel, sort of looking over my shoulder type thing. This is my biggest issue now. I couldn't care less about the 18+ section. It's the fact that when we ask them to clarify a rule their reply is "just do as you're told". For all we know, someone typing the word "sex" could have brought them running and telling us no "adult material"/"mature content". We could all probably guess why they wanted it down, but they left it that ambiguous. We can't a have a place for "mature discussions" at a 13+ board, but talking about games where you can blow people up and have their insides raining from the sky or hinting at said bad topics is okay because apparently that's appropriate for 13 year olds. :/ I dont want to seem like I am down playing anyones worries. I get it. Most of the games we play are Mature Rated, etc. But let's for one second look at the realities, and not the possibilities. In my experience, and that's all I'm going on here, an Abuse Department is going to show up for one of two reasons. 1. To browse new forums on their site to make sure the new guys down the street aren't peddling kiddie porn before they get themselves too embedded in the neighborhood. 2. If an Abuse Report is sent by a user of a forum. They are not going to come in here and browse all 1,495 of our posts. They have better things to do. We have our own mod and admin staff to do that. And if they are doing their job, Abuse Department will not have to do theirs. Its pretty simple. Should a report go in, they will tell us what it is. We will deal with it. None of this changes the fact that we as a community ALSO want a PG13 forum so we can tap into one of the bigger demographics of this industry. It is in our best interest isn't it? I'm really not concerned with this guys and I just dont think anyone else should be worrying either. |
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Post by RRwatch on Jul 15, 2013 19:56:30 GMT -5
I just trust the Mods here to keep things running smoothly more than Proboards. TBH Im probably the biggest pita here tho  |
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